The anime generation gap

Back in the 1990s, I used to think that Japanese animation was the greatest thing on Earth. The colorful artwork! The unique storylines! The exciting action! "Surely cartoons just couldn't get any better than this!," I thought.

Then 1999 arrived, and brought Pokemon with it. I had actually looked forward to watching the show, as it had been heavily promoted in video game magazines and looked like it had promise. No dice! It was one of the worst cartoons I'd watched in years. All that shameless product placement would have seemed more at home in the 1980s, the dark age of animation where Filmation was still in business and half the shows were commercials for some stupid toy.

Pokemon's success resulted in a flood of Japanese cartoons hitting these shores. I would have been excited about this back in 1994, when anime was a rare treat on American television, but now, I just wish all these Japanese cartoons would stay in their home country where they belong.

These days, I hate 95% of anime, but there are a lot of people out there who still really enjoy it. This leads me to wonder... has anime really gotten worse in the fifteen years since I considered myself a fan of it, or has the quality only seemed to dip because I've gotten older and less tolerant of the artform? When you hit a certain age, do you hit a brick wall that crushes your enthusiasm for Japanese cartoons into a tiny cube?

I think DS is right. Once you reach a certain age you start to get sick of the repetitive plot lines and such. Heck there currently isn't a single anime on TV that I'm keeping track of. I mean if I see one more anime about ninjas or one about some kids with small monsters so help me. Originl pokemon was alright. However after the first season and they added more pokemon that's when they lost me. Still like Digimon. Recorded all four seasons of it. But a lot of anime today seems to just in generally kinda stink. Please give us something original!

I'm not sure how to respond to anime in general since I've never been into Japanese animation. I think TV altogether began to suck around the mid 90's and became progressively worse to the point that I got rid of my TV five years ago. If anime has followed the same progression as the rest of television/movies/pop culture it does suck more now than it used to. But as I said, I never really liked it to begin with.

Most certainly our perceptions of the world change with time. But I think that Pokemon is genuinely horrible.

Reason being, Pokemon is a money making franchise, that's all it is. And the thing is, that's all it'll ever be. Why do we get tired of Pokemon? Because every season is meant to be the exact same thing as the last one. Why? Because Pokemon is not meant to stay with you a life time. It's suppose to attract you while you're young, while you still hold your parents wallets at the mercy of your tears. Once you've hit the point where you realize that no matter how much plastic toys you buy, you're not gonna get any closer to being that guy on TV, well, it doesn't matter anymore. You've probably spent a whole lot of money on toys and articles before that. And more to the point, there'll be a whole bunch of other little kids who will more than willingly fall heads over heals for that "wonderful" show. And if you remember half of how much you used to like that stuff, you realize how futile it is to tell them that it's a bad show.

Now, have cartoons really gone down the drain? I think they really did. Why? First of all, everything is about money, let's not forget that. But, let's take Disney films for example. Of course it was about money. However, to make money, they had to attract people to this new form of entertainment that is the "animated movie" with actual quality. I think that when something is trying to make its niche of the money world, it first has to attract attention with actual quality, and that's when you get the good stuff.

Another reason why cartoons were "better" back then was the storyline. If you look at it, many films were actually based on books. Sure, Disney more than once changed the storyline beyond recognition, but if the original story line is good, there must be good stuff left in it that even Disney can't take away (except maybe for a few cases I may not be aware of). Fox and the Hound was based on a novel. It definitely changed the plot more than just a lot, but the good storyline definitely had an impact. Not take its sequel. (Yes, there actually is such a thing as "Fox and the Hound 2") First of all, on a purely technical point of view, it's incredibly better. Animation is smoother, colors are richer, whatever. But the storyline sucks! You watch it and it totally lacks continuity (believe me, I own both, I tried to see where it would fit, it doesn't) and the story is practically inexistent.

Why can Disney make crap films today? Because its name is now famous, and many people will buy its films just because "Hey, the cover is colorful, and it's Disney.

It sucks, but that's how it works, and the sad truth is, it does work.

I'll stop soon if you're getting bored of reading this.

This trend of people thinking that animated movies are getting truly terrible actually isn't anything new. The people who made The Secret of NIMH were actually originally Disney artists (hence the similar art style) who felt that quality had plummeted and that the "spark" had gone out of animated movies. So they basically left and started their own company and out came The Secret of NIMH, a movie that was acclaimed as simply amazing in a time where people started to get sick and tired of Disney films. It was a diamond in the rough, so to speak. Oh and by the way, the story was based of a book too.

So does that mean that there will never be any good animated movies again? I hope not. But unlike the era of NIMH, where animated was the only other movie form except for live action, today we have computer animated movies which have basically come and taken the place animated movies held: children's movies. Because let's admit it, animated movies have always been synonym of children's movies, despite the potential for adult films (shifty eyes towards Japanese Anime.)

So what do you think will happen to what first exposed us to furry material?

The problem is that suddenly most anime shows are basically about the same thing, just change the characters, their surroundings, and the reason they got powers.

I also remember the time where the castlevania DS games suddenly changed to an anime style, it was really not well recieved..., at least the new one has taken it out.

I think there's an optimum age for thinking cartoons are great. For me, the art of animation reached its peak in the eighties, with Thundercats, He-Man, Transformers, MASK and all the rest, and I never really got into anime in the first place...

Furryfurryfurry wrote:

The people who made The Secret of NIMH were actually originally Disney artists (hence the similar art style) who felt that quality had plummeted and that the "spark" had gone out of animated movies. So they basically left and started their own company and out came The Secret of NIMH, a movie that was acclaimed as simply amazing in a time where people started to get sick and tired of Disney films. It was a diamond in the rough, so to speak. Oh and by the way, the story was based of a book too.

Very true. Don Bluth was a purist. It's notable that he wasn't trained as an animator, he just kinda fell into it. (His background was actually live theatre). He continued using antiquated techniques to capture the feel of old style animation even after computers became the norm. That's why his major films like Nimh, An American Tail, Land Before Time and All Dogs Go to Heaven were originally released by smaller studios and then bought out by the big guys after they became successful (it's true, look at the credits if you don't believe me!)

Quote :

So does that mean that there will never be any good animated movies again? I hope not. But unlike the era of NIMH, where animated was the only other movie form except for live action, today we have computer animated movies which have basically come and taken the place animated movies held: children's movies.

Animated movies used to be a major investment of time and capital. When they were hand drawn animated films took twice as long as live action ones to produce and required an enormous staff of artists to create. That's why even dedicated animation studios like Disney only had 3-4 major releases a decade back in the 50's and 60's. Nowadays a small number of digital artists can churn out a film in under a year. It's much easier to get the investment back. Even if the box office returns fail to cover the cost of production the revenue from toys, clothing, video games and the inevitable TV show and string of straight-to-video sequels will more than compensate.

Do I sound bitter? I did attend three semesters of film school with an emphasis in animation. I'm afraid I was completely disillusioned. XP

That's actually why I have two modes in animated movies.

I either am perfectly aware of what's going on and like Poco, disillusioned though I can't say I know half as much as him. That's usually when I become snide and rant about how there is no good in this world. -_-0

Then, there are other times when I can shut my brain off and enjoy just about anything, even movies that most critics will say was simply horrible. Come on, there are flashy characters jumping around on the screen. What else could you want? ^^0

Normally, I try to stay in between the two. Neither of the two extremes reflect well on me.

Well. I really don't have an opinion on animation anymore, as I think I sorta grew out of it. For me, even the old stuff has no spark in my eyes anymore...except maybe for a few. Then again, some stuff I never get, especially with the heavily comercialized american animation, like Transformers and TMNT and whatever... I guess I never really care for the visuals...I only like a good story...if it cant deliver, I'm out.

I still like poke'mon though I havent seen an episode in some time cause none of the stations my rabbit ears can pick up on a regular basis carry it
(yes some people still use those things)

My sister is into fruits basket and I think its a sweet comic book that has been animated even if a few of the founding principals in the book (characters possesed by animal zodiac spirits) dose rub my personal deep religious side the wrong way they are still well put together

One other thing I have noticed is that a lot of cartoons tend to be either politicaly correct and hospital room clean complete with funny smells or down right rude and not a point in the slightest.

And when it comes to the animation they tend to be far less violent then they used to be but far more graphic

Then: whiley cyoote tries to get road runner with dynamight and gets blown to pieces but the pieces still move and interact in a hallarious manor

Now: more relistic and violent so and so gets pushed down an incline
but its more graphic cause he lands on a tree branch and it skewers him and he screams in agony

Yeah, I noticed that too. There are still some shows which impress me with their tongue-in-cheek humor, but most cartoons either play it safe or crank up the sex and violence to ridiculous levels. Metalocalypse is a great example of the latter... it can be amusing in spots, but it's intended for a very specific audience and tries much too hard to shock the audience. The Venture Bros. seems like the very model of restraint by comparison.

Ah some good points Ug. I think a lot of cartoons now a days are waaaay to politically correct and the comic violence is way down. Give me Ren and Stimpy any day. That was a good cartoon. Lots of funny slap stick humor. Then again it is possible to do a good show with very little violence if you have a good story and deep characters. Hey Arnold for example was fairly good in it's day.

And Yeah some just seem to not show any restraint and just go for as much gore and sex stuff as they possibly can without getting the censors on there asses.

As for new CGI cartoons that have been mentioned. Meh I'm not a fan of em. Well usually. Half the time you just don't get the same feeling of life or anything from them. I mean they're just cold and it just seems like they're trying to hard to be real. Although some normal animated stuff now a days has that quality too.

Its jsut weird though, we have cartoons made in CG, and now Flash! Eee...is it really that expensive to make a normaly animated project? Dont get me wrong though, Beastwars and Reboot are awesome, but that was back in 94/95. Well, animation may change, but as well as the content. Also, we need to consider who the audience it. Also, yeah, things are more politically correct now, which is okay really, but then again, sometimes I get surprised at what is shown >.> Crap, am I even on topic anymore?

Well, the anime and cartoons are changing, changing with the time and the audience and such. Also, dont forget as we get older, we change too. We all grow and change, and believe me, its not just changing diapers

then again, sometimes things stay eternal, always entertaining us till we die. In my opinion, commercialism is what ruins the things we love, ESPECIALLY cartoons and childhood memories. Maybe it was a good thing the Digimon franchise didn't really succeed past the shows (in comparison to Pokemon). Also explains my distaste towards Transformers and TMNT and all the other similarly hyped material...it jsut ruins it...

and I still feel I got off topic...

There's also the issue of recycling old product. TMNT has been mentioned. I wonder if you're referring to the same franchise I knew as a child. Care Bears also comes to mind. I remember the old show that was produced between 1980 and 1984, not the Disney channel version from the early 90's. Both have been repackaged and resold to a different generation and both look very strange to me through the lens of my memory of the original versions.

It seems that my childhood is being ruined by commercialism.

"Recycling old products" Oh crap, Disney excels at that. Every few years they release a new "XX years special edition" that is "digitally remastered." -_-0

Of course, that's because there will always be new children to fill up the gap, and "Hey! If their parents saw the movie as children, they'll definitely buy it for their kids, seeing as they most most likely lost those old VHS tapes." That's actually a truly diabolical master plan. Oh well, *goes to buy re-released Disney films*

Ah, the wonders of the economics of animated movies..., what wonderful disillusionment, what incredible revelation.

Poco wrote:

It seems that my childhood is being ruined by commercialism.

No one can ruin your childhood now Poco ^^ It happily rests in your memories

I dont really know who CGI or Metalocalypse but I do know what is ment by the remakes
I was/am a huge fan of the original teenage mutant ninja turtles
the new one did have an intersting feel to it with its super sci-fi stuff
Its clear that they didn't try to redo the series but basically make a new one dr. Stockmen is very diffrent indeed
but the originals are still the originals

I still can remember some of the theme song and the plushie I used to sleep with was a leonardo plushie untill he started getting worn enough it was decided that it was best that he be put into storage for his sake

and as for the comercializm, yes that is what gets in the way of these things and annoies me greatly although I think its funny that the movie "charlie and the chocolate factory" escentualy was commercialism

I was produced with the hopes of selling actual "Willy wonka" choclate bars
the only problem was is that the recipie that made the bars had a flaw
the bars melted at room temperature on the store shelves so they never took off
but one other thing that makes me wonder is that generally the sweeter and richer a chocolate is and the smoother a chocolate is the lower the melting piont
if this theroy is right I wonder if those bars might have been worth a movie?

Ah yes, anime. It's not so much that it's getting worse... The main fact, I think, is that it's now put in the limelight. Since theres more of it, theres also more shows that are, in a manner of speaking, absolute trash.

And yet, there occasionally comes around very creative and intruiging shows like Death Note or something just amazing like Messages to a Distant Star, a 30 minute film made entirely by one guy on a Mac. There are still a lot of great anime out there, but since a lot more is being shown there will obviously be more that suck. I'd just be glad it doesn't have the generally terrible translation.


Now, to the subject of western cartoons. I agree, the 80s were a golden age for TV cartoons. The 90s were good too, basking in the recession of the creative wave. Then came the mellenium, and now everything seems much too derivitive of each other. And yet, there are still good shows. Not many, but their there. Look at Megas XLR, My life as a Teenage Robot, Foster's Home for imaginary Friends and almost anything by Butch Hartman. They're unique and interesting, and actually good. But a lot of the rest are almost completely interchangable.

I express a lot of disdain for CG, as well. Though some was good, the fact that it dominates the feature films bothers me to no end. I hate the style, perhaps it's because I inheritly think in 2D and perhaps it's because CG simply isn't as expressive and doesn't age nearly as well.
I am of the camp that believes animation to be not about realism, but expression. CG throws away that in favour of being more like live action, but if you do that then what is the point of it even being animation?
Sure, you can do things you couldn't in live action, and it's great for special effects. Some films do have it look good, but it just never has the same lasting impact.
For example, take a look at Spirit. Spirit was a blend of CG and 2D. Being from 2001, the CG looks horrible, but ignore that. What we're interested in is the characters, who were all done in 2D.
Now, Spirit does something kind of unique; it's an animated film about a horse, where the horse doesn't speak except in inner monolouges. This worked incredibly well, and ONLY because of the expression 2D can provide. Try to imagine this movie in full CG: You can't do it.

But, I've very likely rambled on a lot at this point. So, I'll leave it at that.

CG is generally bad. If you want realism just make a live action film. If you want animation, use traditional techniques that look animated. Like anime, there are a few CG films that are good but they are the exception rather than the rule. And let's not even get into the video game spinoff dreck.

Hopefully all this is just a phase. It certainly wouldn't be the first period of poorly thought out nonsense in film history.

I don't think CG is going to die off. It's much too important to the live action film industry.

I find that "pure" CG is just a different style of animation that is based on different technologies. It has its own quirks and charms. Monsters Inc., The Incredibles and Toy Story are amongst the titles that stand out. Not quite classics, but Toy Story was still something special.

But the 2D animated stuff is still brilliant though.

Anyone here seen the animated series based on Beatrix Potter's stories "The stories of Peter Rabbit and friends"? That was a great series.

I do not watch much anime anymore. I ussually watch the toons from DC aka, Justice League or from Marvel, aka Spiderman. Once in a while, I watch anime, but mostly, it is US base toons. A lot of times, it is on Adult Swim I also watch a lot of.